Transcript of Senator Grassley's Conference Call with Iowa Reporters


     GRASSLEY:  Hello, everybody.  I'm going to make just a short

statement about what I'm doing right now.  We're continuing -- I'm in

the anteroom of the Senate Finance Committee.  We're working to find a

bipartisan agreement on health care reform legislation.

 

     I want to make health care coverage more affordable and

accessible and to slow down operating costs of health care.  They're

spiraling.  Those are goals that I've been talking about with you

folks for the last five or six months.  They're still the goals.

 

     Since the beginning of the year, we've had lots of meetings.

I've give you an example.  I participated in 59 meetings with senators

about health care reform.  We had nine Finance Committee hearings,

day-long discussions about health care.

 

     I've held 87 meetings with constituents about health care this

year and given 10 speeches on the subject.  Legislation this big --

because I keep trying to remind you -- I don't have to remind you, but

I keep saying it anyway -- that health care system reform isn't just

about reforming health care; we're affecting 17 percent of America's

economy.  It touches the quality of life of every household, and ought

to be based on a broad consensus.

 

     And unless you can help me think of some other piece of

legislation, I would say flat out, from my memory, that this is the

only piece of legislation I've ever worked on or I can think of

Congress ever passing that's restructured 17 percent of America's

economy.

 

     And so a bill this big, making these sweeping impacts ought to be

supported by 80 senators.  And that may be wishful thinking, but at

this point, that's our goal, and that's very much bipartisan.

 

     And let me suggest to you something else that I think is

significant.  You've got a group of 23 senators, maybe all of them

aren't here at one time, going on in these discussions right now that

I stepped out of to talk to you trying to seek I bipartisan proposal.

Think of what's going on in the Senate Health Committee, a strictly

partisan approach.  Democrats lay down a bill, Republicans can amend

it, but no attempt to have bipartisanship there.

 

     Then you've got, over in the House of Representatives, you've got

the Republicans offering a Republican bill.  I think they're having a

news conference today on that point.  Probably pretty soon, you'll get

a very partisan bill out of the Democrat caucus.

 

     And then over here, you have people that have wide views of

opinion.  You know, people that would be as conservative as, well, I

won't know name Republican senators.  But several on the committee are

very conservative.  Several on the Democrat side are very liberal

sitting down, starting out with a blank sheet of paper.  Not right

now, we've developed beyond the blank sheet of paper, but we don't

have a bill to get us to the point where, hopefully, we have a

bipartisan bill.

 

     Now, maybe tomorrow, if I were talking to you, it would all fail.

But right now, two things to keep in mind.  We said we wanted a

bipartisan bill since the first of the year.  We're still headed in

that direction.

 

     Secondly, until yesterday, we were pretty much on schedule to get

a bill to the Senate floor by -- by the end of this month for debate

next month.  Now, that slipped yesterday.  How many -- whether it

slipped a day or a week, I don't really know.  But part of that is

scoring by CBO.  They're very sophisticated in their approach.  We

don't necessarily get the information to them on time.  We expect a

miracle out of them.  You can't get a miracle as far as time delivery.

So things have slipped, but somewhat beyond the control of members of

the Congress -- or if it's all fault because we didn't have documents

to them in time.

 

     So whether this will be done next Tuesday or a week from Tuesday

or, you know, maybe after the 4th of July break, right now, it's out.

But this is the first time that I had to kind of say we haven't met a

deadline.

 

     Now, I'm ready for questions on this subject and who's going to

call the roll?

 

     STAFF:  Kerry in Centerville?

 

     QUESTION:  Yes.  Thank you.

 

     Senator, a question.  What did you think -- I know you and Max

Baucus are very bipartisan and you work together very well.  What did

you think of the president's speech the other day?

 

     GRASSLEY:  The one to the AMA?

 

     QUESTION:  Yes.

 

     GRASSLEY:  On several issues, it was less compromising than what

Senator Dodd, Grassley, Baucus and Enzi heard a week ago today at the

White House.  We spent more than an hour with the president.

 

     And I came out of that meet saying that he was willing to

compromise on almost everything or I said be flexible on most

everything except get it done yesterday, in other words, on time.

 

     He -- it seemed to me, although I didn't read the speech in

whole, so if I've got it wrong, you tell me.  But it seems to me, on

two areas that he discussed with us on public option and on -- and on

-- let's see, the other one was tort reform which actually tort reform

hasn't been too much of a discussion up here, but when it has come up

and we've discussed it with the president, he has brought it up and

said that he was willing to take on the tort attorneys.

 

     And even though they've got a loud voice in his party.  And he

took that on during the campaign, so this isn't something new.  But

here...

 

     QUESTION:  That's very important that you get rid of the tort

reform.  I mean, that's -- that has to be done, I think.

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes, but he said he wasn't willing to cap punitive

damages which sounds to me like he's not willing to listen to one of

the best ways of doing it.  Now, he may be willing to listen to

something else, but when I talked to him, he sounded very willing to

have that on the table, and it didn't sound that way yesterday.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.  Thank you.

 

     STAFF:  Tom Beaumont at the Register?

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, you're talking about no deal yet.  How far

apart are the parties from a deal in the Finance Committee?  And what

are the -- the sticking points that you think with the most stubborn

right now?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, I can list -- I can answer the last one very

easily, but it's difficult for me to answer how far apart we are

because I'm not sure it's easy to delineate.  But one would be whether

to cap the exclusion and maybe that's not only difficult for

bipartisan agreement, but if you heard me and Senator Baucus on

television, "Fox News Sunday," the Democrats -- at least Dodd speaking

for a lot of the Democrats -- they don't want to look at the exclusion

at all.  And he left the impression that you could get -- pay for all

this out of savings. 

 

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, there is a lot of waste in health care, but if

you're going to save this all -- savings on Medicare and Medicaid,

just think how bad the situation is now in Iowa with reimbursement on

Medicare and how much worse it would be.

 

     So -- so there's problems not only between Republicans and

Democrats on exclusion but within the Democrat Party.  Then the other

one would be play-or-pay.  Another one would be the -- now, wait a

minute.  I've kind of lost my train of thought here.

 

     Pay-or-play.  Maybe an advisory board, whether or not it's got

power to preempt or to make decisions that may be Congress ought to

make on delay, denial, cost of reimbursement, and all those things.

Maybe some end-of-life issues -- oh, and the most obvious one is

public option.

 

     QUESTION:  Sure.

 

     GRASSLEY:  I'm sorry that I didn't mention that.  Public option.

Maybe -- let's put it this way.  Public option, pay-or-play, and the

whole financing issue.

 

     QUESTION:  Two-part question here.  You said the CBO getting the

information to the CBO has -- you've missed your deadline.  What I

want to understand is whether that was something that the committee

was responsible for.  And, second, does it have anything to do with

the delay -- is any delay attributable to the CBO's report coming out

saying that, you know, the savings won't be realized?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, there would be a few days on the -- oh, on that

point.  In other words, what the White House reported? 

 

     QUESTION:  Yes.

 

     GRASSLEY:  And the group said to him.  No, I don't think so.  I

think it's pretty -- I think that even Democrats considered all that

propaganda not only on the part of the White House but on the part of

the organizations.  And besides, was difference does it make?  If it

can't be scored, it doesn't mean anything anyway.  And a lot of those

things can't be scored, and if they could be scored, you know, a lot

of these savings that are down the road, too.  So they aren't going to

help us immediately on our offsets.

 

     So the first one I would say would be the responsibility of the

committee, yes, in answer to your first question, not the

responsibility of CBO.

 

     QUESTION:  Gotcha.

 

     GRASSLEY:  In fact, just let me tell you.  Just last night at

6:30, 7:00, I had a conversation with Director Elmendorf, and he

wanted to assure -- he wanted me to know that -- and actually, Baucus

drives this more than I do, but he was being courteous to tell me

that, since I'm the negotiator for the Republicans, that he had to

have, by tonight -- now, wait a minute, maybe it was Thursday night.

 

     But either tonight or tomorrow night, he -- if we wanted to mark

up a bill next Tuesday, he had to have everything finalized by

tomorrow night or he wouldn't be able to do it.  And, you know, I told

him I can understand.  My answer to him was that it's probably delayed

anyway for other reasons because we can't reach the compromise.

 

     And secondly, I expect him, as long as they're intellectually

honest, and I believe they are intellectually honest and there's no

political pressure to do anything too fast that can't be justified

intellectually, I expect him to take whatever time it does to do it

right.

 

     QUESTION:  Thank you.

 

     STAFF:  Mike Myers?

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, let me go through a cliche, perhaps, the cart

and horse.  On this matter of health care reform, is it the money --

finding the money savings that is most difficult?  Or is it the policy

initiatives, the coverage of bringing this group in and doing this and

that -- are they both just equally difficult by the way they are

intertwined?

 

     GRASSLEY:  It's kind of a horse-and-cart analogy, and they're

both difficult.  But I think you get the program put together and you

think is ideal.   And then you decide how you're going to fund it.

And then you get those scored, and then there's actually a third step.

There has to be some reanalysis of that by CBO -- or, no.

 

     The third step is that we would have to do what we call dial-down

or dial-up certain things both on the program end and on the financing

end.  And then CBO has got to score it again.

 

     So you've got, really, four steps in there before you get to mark

up.

 

     QUESTION:  What are you finding the greater consensus on overall

on any of these policy initiatives?  What the so-called easy part?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, OK.  Well, you know, we -- I just talked to Tom

about public option and about financing and about the payer -- the

play-or-pay.  Those are difficult items, but they might only be three

items out of 50 items that we probably have agreement on 40 of them

because those are issues that there's a broad-based consensus that

needs to be done.

 

     Let me suggest to you emphasis upon dealing with chronic

illnesses, five or six illnesses that take up 75 percent of the cost

of Medicare.  Preventive medicine or changing the perverse incentives

by which, you know, your doctor tells you he wants to see you every

day and twice on Sunday because he is going to get paid for every time

he sees you.

 

     So those perverse incentives drive up health care costs.  So

there's a broad agreement on changing those, in other words, chronic

diseases, preventive medicine, and the perverse incentives that are in

health care.  And they make up the largest items and the easiest to

agree to because there's probably less ideology involved in those

decisions; in other words, not the ideology that's behind public

option, as an example.

 

     QUESTION:  All right.  I may have a follow-up.  I'll pass for

now.  Thank you.

 

     STAFF:  Mike Glover?

 

     QUESTION:  You've said in the past that this is the year health

care happens.  Do you still feel that way?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.  And if it doesn't happen, it'll happen four

years from now because next year is an election year, the following

year, even though it's not an election year, is the start of a

presidential, you know, season.  And it's probably not going to be a

part of that.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.

 

     STAFF:  Joe Morton?

 

     Jim Boyd?

 

     Mary Rae Bragg?

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, I hear complaints from readers that when it

comes to paying for reforming the health care system, it appears to be

cost shifting rather than cost saving that driving the proposals.  Is

there going to be an end to $60 aspirin?

 

 

     GRASSLEY:  Do you know what?  If you look at the first two or

three years, you're absolutely right.  But if you look out 10 years,

and we get more emphasis upon the chronic disease, managing them so

they're less costly and a better quality of life, preventive medicine,

getting everybody insured because if you're insured, you probably

aren't going to get as sick as you are if you don't have insurance,

and so it's going to be easier to keep you well; you won't be using

the emergency room.  There's going to be tremendous savings that's

going to benefit everybody.

 

     But there is cost shifting, and even up front, there's some

increase in cost.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.  Thank you.

 

     STAFF:  Ed Tibbets?

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, I wanted to ask you, you had said earlier

that, since this overhaul is going is affect such a large part of the

economy that it ought to be a bill that's supported by 80 senators.

Yet you've said that you oppose the public option.  I guess I'm just

wondering if you can describe what a bill might look like that would

still get the support of 40 Democratic senators.

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, if it didn't have any public option in it but it

was -- we got everybody covered, it seems to me that you'd get 40

senators to vote for it.  But -- 40 Democrat senators to vote for it.

But let me suggest to you that -- well, then the ideal thing for me

would be not to have any public option or even the promotion of the --

of the idea that we don't have enough competition in insurance today

when you have 350 health insurance companies somewhere in the

United States even though they aren't all in Iowa.

 

     It would be not to have any public option.  But we're talking

about -- along the lines of what we know about in the Midwest,

cooperatives, maybe encouraging some cooperatives moving into health

insurance the same way that maybe 150 years ago county mutuals got

together to have fire insurance for farmers because nobody else would

insure farmers because they were so far from a fire station, you know,

things of that nature.

 

     So there's still opportunities, maybe, to satisfy people that

wanted public option and still get it for Republicans.  Listen, it's

probably not too far removed from Republican philosophy anyway that we

ought to have more competition, that it should be risk based, in other

words, the option to have the same solvency requirements as the other

insurance companies.  And if it's all done entirely within the private

sector, you know, it doesn't seem to me it's got the faults that you

have when you've got the power to tax is the power to destroy by

having the government institute something.

 

     QUESTION:  So on the flip side of that, is it your assessment

that a bill that includes a public option won't get 20 (ph)

Republicans?

 

     GRASSLEY:  I don't think there's more than one Republican who

would vote for it, and that one Republican is very cautious about it

and maybe only to it under the condition that it be what we call a

backup.  In other words, if there wasn't competition -- a certain

amount of competition in the state, then, in that particular instance,

you could have a public option; in other words, a government-run

health plan.

 

     QUESTION:  Does that suggest less willingness to compromise on

the Republican's part at least insofar as the public option?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Only on the public option thing.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.

 

     GRASSLEY:  But then you'd think we're getting some consideration

on my side of following a co-op basis.  And, by the way, I was told

yesterday that there's a leading Democrat, because, in his state,

there is some cooperative insurance on health care, that would maybe

bring a very liberal senator on board on that concept.  That would

help sell it to some Democrats.

 

     QUESTION:  Like who?

 

     GRASSLEY:  I don't think I should give a name.  I'm sorry.  I

just don't feel comfortable repeating what I've heard privately.

 

     QUESTION:  Well, can you talk at all about who on the Democratic

side might be friendly to this idea?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.  I think it's being promoted by Senator Conrad,

which is very important to have a Democrat promote an option.  And

it's getting favorable look-see at a lot of Democrats.  Beyond that,

well, Senator Baucus would be one that would be looking at it.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.

 

     GRASSLEY:  And he's chairman of the committee.  That's pretty

significant.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.  Thanks.

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.

 

     STAFF:  Tim Rohwer?

 

     QUESTION:  Yes, Senator.

     As I was driving to work today, on the radio, they mentioned that

many Republican senators where a little bit critical of President

Obama not being strong enough in some of his comments concerning the

situation over in Iran.  Do you think that this country should react

more strongly to what's going on there right now with all the rioting

and the journalists being, basically to not report to what's going on?

 

     GRASSLEY:  I think, in rhetoric, very definitely because don't we

want to promote democracy wherever we can around the world?  It's one

of our goals.  And they presumably want democracy in that country.  I

mean, they portrayed democracy by having their debates and their

multi-candidate elections and the secret balloting, et cetera, et

cetera.

 

     If the votes aren't counted right, shouldn't we be speaking up

for democracy be a fact as well as fiction?

 

     QUESTION:  OK.

 

     STAFF:  John Skipper?

 

     OK.  Did anybody get added late or have a follow-up?

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, you told us you were going to meet with the

Supreme Court nominee on Monday.  Did you get a chance to meet with

her?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.  I enjoyed the meeting very much.  I had a one-

on-one meeting without her staff or my staff.

 

     QUESTION:  How did you feel about her?  Do you think you might...

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.  Well, let me tell you this.  It's kind of a

situation where I had -- where I had, you know, a preconceived notion

about her, maybe from the press, maybe from seeing her talk a little

bit on television.

 

     QUESTION:  What was your preconceived notion?

 

     GRASSLEY:  And, well, you know, maybe I had a view that she was

very aggressive, maybe unfriendly, dogmatic.  I didn't get that

impression at all.  I got a favorable impression of her being

friendly, reserved, not aggressive, very conversational, a person that

you could like.

 

     Now, I might be fooled when she gets before the committee.  I

didn't get into any detail about law.  In fact, I told her up front

I'm not a lawyer, I'm not going to try to tell you how smart I am

about the law if I haven't been to law school.  And I'll be asking all

the legal questions in the committee.

 

     So I said to her I want you to talk and tell me whatever you want

to tell me about yourself and about the law and about approaching this

and all those sorts of things.  And she talked.

 

     QUESTION:  You're not totally saying you would not vote for her.

I mean, at this point?

 

 

     GRASSLEY:  Well, I hope I've been very clear on that in every

interview since she's been nominated.  I did vote against her for the

court of -- circuit court.  And this is a whole new thing.  She's got

3,000 cases.  She's got a whole new thing.  And when -- and when

you're being appointed to the Supreme Court, as long as -- as well as

the circuit, there's a lot more at stake, a lot more attention to it.

 

     I've got to give it a lot more thing, and I owe her the same

dispassionate approach that I expect her to use as a judge, you know.

In other words, it's a fresh review top to bottom.

 

     QUESTION:  OK.  Thank you.

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, I had a hard time asking this question

before, so I'm going to try again.  What I meant to say is does the

CBO report on the scoring of the health care bill make it seem less

likely that a deal can be reached this year?  Does the hurt the

chances for legislation?

 

     GRASSLEY:  No, I don't think so.  You're talking about on the

CBO's reaction to what the industry said they could save?

 

     QUESTION:  I was referring to the scoring that said it was going

to cost more than a trillion dollars over 10 years.

 

     GRASSLEY:  No.  Because that causes us to sit down and modify our

mark.

 

     QUESTION:  And do you think that bodes well for the opponents of

a public plan and stuff like that?

 

     GRASSLEY:  No, I wouldn't say it has anything to do with that.

You know, for instance, when I said "dial down" or "dial up," our

staff was -- the staff of the two senators, Grassley and Baucus, were

working last night long hours to do just that, get further

modifications to CBO.

 

     QUESTION:  Anybody else want to ask a follow-up?

 

     QUESTION:  Hey, I do.

 

     Senator, it's Ed Tibbets.

 

     Just quickly, in your discussions with President Obama, what's he

had to say about this do of a cooperative?

     GRASSLEY:  He said he was willing to look at it.  We didn't have

a deep discussion about it.  We did have a deep discussion about

public option.  He made it very clear that he thinks we ought to have

a public option, but he said he was open.  And that's why, you know, I

was a little -- in answer to Kerry's question, I was a little

surprised about his speech to the AMA yesterday.

 

     QUESTION:  So what do you make of that?  I mean, given the strong

Republican support...

 

     GRASSLEY:  You know what?  We had a private conversation at the

White House.  I think that that's the real Obama, and when you are out

in public, you can't look like you're compromising before you

absolutely have to compromise.

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, can I ask you a question (inaudible) have you

had as many conversations with the president prior to Obama as you

have had with Obama?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Oh, I suppose when you've got an opportunity to speak

with a senator almost every vote that I had a lot more conversation

with him as a senator, but they were never of the substance that...

 

     QUESTION:  I mean did you ever get to go talk to a president as

much as you've talked to Obama?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Oh, yes.  I had more and longer conversations with

Bush than I have with Obama, but don't forget, that's -- that's eight

years compared to four months.

 

     STAFF:  OK.  Thanks, everybody.

 

     QUESTION:  One more -- can we ask...

 

     QUESTION:  You have access to him, those, when you want to talk

to him?

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes.

 

     QUESTION:  Senator, one more.  On this inspector general matter

for the service corps...

 

     GRASSLEY:  Yes?

 

     QUESTION:  Do you suspect that the first lady's office has been

involved with the firing of Walpin?

 

     GRASSLEY:  The only thing I know about that is there was a

reference in the paper to requests made about e-mails and things of

that nature to find out, but it was more a case of trying to make that

determination as to whether to draw a conclusion.  And your question

would imply that a conclusion has been drawn, and no conclusion has

been drawn in regard to the first lady's office.

 

     QUESTION:  Thanks.

 

     GRASSLEY:  You bet.  Goodbye.